Welcome to The Get Real Podcast, your high-octane boost and in the trenches tell-it-like-it-is reality therapy for personal, business and real estate investing success with your hosts, power-preneurs Angela and Ron. It’s time to get real!

Angela: Hey everybody, welcome to the Get Real Podcast. I’m Angela Thomas and I’m here with Ron Phillips.

Ron: Hey, it is not sunny in Charleston today, so yeah, not sunny here today.

Angela: I’m not jealous of where you are at the moment.

Ron: Yes, it’s up pre hurricane podcast today.

Angela: Pre hurricane podcast.

Ron: Pre hurricane podcast. We are recording this hours before the hurricane hits and I have opted to stay home so hopefully there will be another episode.

Angela: Whatever. Isn’t there like a safe room in your house? They all come with that out there

Ron: Where I come from a safe room house is all of your guns. So I don’t know. We don’t have basements here because it’s low country and you can’t put a basement in because it’s all sand and water. So your house sits up and you go into the middle part of the house, I think.

Angela: Away from windows and stuff.

Ron: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So anyway, supposed to get a category today and it’s supposed to potentially hit us or it might like go out to ocean. We’re hoping that it goes out to the ocean and it just leaves everybody alone. I mean, the Bahamas, the Bahamas took enough beating. Literally, we really don’t need any here in Charleston.

Angela: No, I mean as long. Yeah. No kidding. All right. Well hope you’re good. So today we’re going to talk about of vacancy in your rental properties and then how to minimize that because as everyone knows that has income properties they can see is the single, I mean, I would say it’s the single biggest expense, right?

Ron: Well, tenants are right. I mean it’s tenants that cause vacancies, and tenants caused repairs. Those two things are your largest expense.

Angela: Right. And a lot of times when there’s vacancy, that’s when the repairs come with turnover, right?

Ron: Yeah, absolutely.

Angela: Biggest repairs. So preventing turnover is one of the best things that you can do or your property management can do to maximize your return. So we’re just going to talk a little bit about that today and you know, caveat here, we believe in having a property manager. If you’ve listened to any of our shows, you know that we don’t advise that you manage your own properties for a number of reasons that we’ve talked about in the past. I don’t know if we need to get into that.

Ron: Well, that’s it. We’re going to try really hard to venture out today and start thinking like people, well, thinking like crazy people.

Angela: Yeah. Let’s see how this…

Ron: That’s actually why I stayed here, you know, because that’s a crazy thing to do. And I thought, how better could I get myself mentally focused to talk like a crazy person who manages their own properties, rather than staying in a hurricane? I mean…

Angela: Ouch. Hurtful. No, I’m just kidding.

Ron: Yeah, I mean, it’s basically, this is basically the same thing. So.

Angela: Yes, yes. I know. Even, you know, my own mother started out managing her own properties because the cash flow where, you know, where she invested, the cashflow wasn’t high enough to afford a property manager plus to, you know, make any money. There was no cashflow if you hired a property manager. So if that’s you and you’re just, you know, getting started or you’re, you know, crazy like Ron said, and just like managing your own properties, we’re going to talk about this from that angle today. We’re going to focus on, you know, you own your properties and you are the manager and we’re going to talk about how to minimize vacancy.

Ron: Plus there’s probably going to be some contradictory things that are being said because this is going to be very difficult for me because I just don’t think you should do that. So I may or may not, in which case, Angela interrupting me and go, wait, which one are you talking about right now? So just be prepared for both. We could be go either way today. It really could. Because, yeah, because this is going to be really difficult for me, but we’re going to give it a shot.

Angela: Right. So first of all, when we’re talking about vacancy, like Ron said, this is a problem with your tenants. So if you have a vacancy problem, there’s some issue going on with your tenants. Some of that could be, you know, you raised your rents and they can’t afford how much you raised it. They’re not paying on time. You have a victim, they’re flaky, destroying your property. They are moving away because of a new job or whatever, or they’re unhappy with your property.

Angela: And that is one of, you know, there’s a couple of these that you can prevent. And then there’s some that, you know, like moving away for a job. Obviously there’s nothing you can do about that. So we’re going to talk about how to prevent some of those. And the first way is to identify your ideal tenant. And yeah, this is hard Ron. Because I’m like, well your property manager does that, okay. But yeah, if you’re the property manager, you’re identifying your ideal tenant.

Ron: Just so everybody knows your ideal tenant cannot break any of the laws. So if you didn’t know what the laws are for fair housing, which I’m not going to cover here today, go study up on those, right? So if, if you are one of the people who your ideal tenant has to be a certain type of individual, A, you’re breaking the law B, you should probably go read up on it before you, before you break the law. So don’t do that, okay.

Ron: Anyway, we’re not going to get into that because I don’t really want to talk about that today. I hate covering this every freaking time I have to do continuing education. Because it should be, it should be just a normal thing that everybody does, right, that you just don’t discriminate against folks. So if that’s who you are, well then you should probably just not be on our podcast because you’re a punk and we don’t like you, okay. But if that’s who you are before you go out and you decide to be a landlord, you might want to read the laws, okay. That’s all.

Angela: All right. Fair enough.

Ron: Did I say they were a punk?

Angela: Yeah, you, did, I mean you could have used a worse word. I don’t think that’s too bad.

Ron: I didn’t want an explicit rating on our show.

Angela: So, obviously we want the kind of people who pay rent on time, take care of our property and are basically, you know, decent people and generally those tend to be professionals. You know, you’re looking for professionals out there that have a career, you know, can hold down a job, take care of themselves. And most of them have a family. So, I mean, most of the stable tenets that I’ve had and I’ve seen other people have, are professionals that have a family, because they’re more likely to stay in one place. They don’t usually want to uproot their whole family and move off, right?

Angela: We don’t want a bunch of, at least I don’t want a bunch of like single guys, you know, setting up a bachelor pad or college kids, right. Those would be less dependable tenants that aren’t going to stay there as long. Although caveat to that, you know, you can make a lot of money on a college property.

Ron: Yeah. If you’re set up for a college, if you’re in a college town, you’re set up for that and you understand going in what you’re getting into, then that’s a whole different ballgame. I got some buddies who are…

Angela: Your contract has to be different and your rules and your, yeah. Everything.

Ron: Absolutely. They usually rent rooms instead of renting a house. You know, there’s different ways that you can make a lot. You can make a lot of money doing that. But what we’re talking about today is just, you know, you own a few houses or you got to, you know, 10 units in your portfolio or something like that. You’re not really in a college town, then you probably don’t want a whole bunch of party animals in your, in your property.

Ron: And in addition to that, I would just add that, you know, to professionals, we also want to add, you know, the hard worker and blue collar folks are great. Anybody who basically who you can look through their, we probably should talk about how you actually figured this out, but thank you buddy. You can look back through their past. You can say, okay, these people are relatively stable, right? They don’t, they don’t have crazy, you know, fluxes in their payment histories and all this stuff. You can, you can figure some of this stuff out. They’re not, they didn’t just get out of prison or they haven’t been to prison four times. They don’t beat their wife. You know, they, there’s some, you know, they pay their child support. You can find out about people, right.

Angela: Being at one job a long time is also a really good indication.

Ron: Yeah. You’re looking for some stability now that said, people who are renting, I mean, not all of them, but a lot of the people who are renting are renting because they can’t buy. So they do have some challenges, right? Not saying that you have to have a perfect person to rent your property because there aren’t any perfect people and everybody has problems in their past. So we’re not saying that you shouldn’t rent to people who have a little bit of a checkered past. There’s just some of the checkers you should check a little bit more than others.

Angela: Wow. That should go on a t-shirt. I was profound. Yeah. Uh huh. Uh huh. Uh huh.

Ron: Vote Ron Phillips TM.

Angela: Yes. So, okay, so that all, I mean, I’m sure this seems kind of obvious, but the biggest thing you can do, I think that’s the most important thing to minimize turnover is to make sure that you get the tenant right the first time. On that note, section eight tenants, what are your feelings on those, Ron?

Ron: Some of them are good, but you have to qualify them the same way as you qualify everybody else. They also have a track record and it also depends on the state and it depends on who the section eight, the area where you have the section eight tenant is coming from. For instance, some of them say that if the tenant actually tears your property up, then they lose their voucher. And when in reality they don’t actually lose their voucher, which means they’re going to go tear up somebody else’s property.

Ron: So if you’re in a municipality where that’s the case, then you’ve got to be really careful about section eight tenants because they can keep their voucher and they can keep going around destroying people’s properties. So the way you find out about that is you don’t call their last one or their current one, you call the one prior to that and the one prior to that call a couple of them because the current one may want to get them out, right. So.

Angela: So their great.

Ron: You don’t want to get a glowing referral from the place they’re leaving now. That’s, you know, they may just want them out of their place and they’re trying to help them find a new place where they can go tear up. But section eight tenants can be awesome because you don’t ever have to worry about them paying late. I mean, they pay on time because the government pays, right? So what you need to do is make sure that they’re not a deadbeat and that they’re not going to tear your place up. So long as they’re going to keep your place pretty decent. Section eight can be great and nothing wrong with that.

Ron: Although one caveat to section eight is that you need to make sure that section eight isn’t paying absorbent higher than market rent because if you run your numbers on section eight tenants and then the, and then they decided to change the rules, then you’re left with market rent. And if market rent doesn’t work for your numbers, then you’re screwed. So make sure to run your numbers on both market rent and section eight. Sometimes section eight, it’s a little bit lower than market rent, okay. And then you got to be really, really careful to make sure that they’re not going to tear your place up cause you’re already losing a little bit, but it can be really good. They don’t move as often, from my experience, they don’t move as often. And you know, if they like your place and they’re going to keep it nice there’s nothing wrong with having them there.

Angela: Cool. Thank you. Okay, so the next thing, so we’ve identified, you know, the type of tenant we’re looking for. The next big thing is, I mean, you might already have your properties, but if you’re in the market to go buy a property, you want to make sure that the tenant that you have identified is going to want to live in that neighborhood and in that home that you’re going to purchase, right? You’re not going to be able to get your ideal professional tenant if you have an inner city trashed house, right? I mean, it’s pretty obvious, right?

Ron: Okay. If you buy a house in the war zone, well then you have to understand what you’re going to get. And if you’re, if you’re managing these properties yourself, that means that many times you’re going to have to go down there yourself. So you know, choose your area wisely. Numbers may look really, really attractive on that war zone house, but I guarantee they won’t look very attractive after you have to go down there to collect a few times. It’s just not good, right.

Angela: So they look for the same things that you look for when you’re buying your personal house, right? You want to make sure…

Ron: They don’t want a war zone either, right. You kind of wonder about people who do want to live in a war zone.

Angela: Yeah. Do they want to or I don’t know if anyone actually wants to or…

Ron: Or do they have or do they have to because of the checkered past, right. I mean you just have to be, you have to be careful about that. If you buy properties down there and on the hope and prayer that somehow that area is going to turn around well until it does, that’s what you’re stuck with is not like you move somebody in there that’s, you know, that’s a nicer quality tenant. When your property is in a war zone, you can fix the property up really good. It doesn’t make any difference because nobody wants to live where they can get shot. I mean, most people don’t want to live where they can get shot. Obviously people do because they live down there, but you don’t want properties in those places.

Angela: You do not. The other thing is, you could, you know, find a great deal on a gorgeous house out in the middle of nowhere and be thinking, you know, I’m sure that the, you know, it’s going to grow out to here, but you have no guarantee of that. I mean, there’s a few areas like that in Utah where I wouldn’t want to live. That are, you know, you can get a really, really nice house for cheaper, but it’s far away from people’s jobs where they’re going to be working. It’s far away from restaurants, shopping centers, businesses, and those are much, much harder to rent, no matter how good of a deal you get on the property.

Angela: Because everyone wants to be close to, they don’t want a longer commute. They don’t want to have to drive a half hour to get to a grocery store. At least most people, I know there’s some that do, but, but those tend to be much harder to rent as well. So those are things to think about before you choose the neighborhood in the area that you purchase property in.

Ron: Yeah, it needs to be affordable. It needs to be, you know, don’t go buy the most expensive properties and think you’re going to have some, you know, huge pool of tenants because you’re not, you know, you need to buy something that’s affordable if you want to have a big pool of tenants. And, you know, then if you have a big pool of tenants, you have, you have more people that want your property, which means you can be more selective about the qualifications that go into renting your property, right? So that allows you to mitigate the risk because you have more of tenant pool to be able to choose from.

Angela: Exactly. And along those lines, some of the things that will give you a bigger tenant pool, is to look for newer homes. And we used to say maximum of 10 years old, but in this market that doesn’t make sense a lot of times. So a bit older is fine as long as it’s been well maintained and you keep it that way. We talk about doing a, you know, three bedroom, two bath is optimal unless you’re in areas where, you know, it’s more common to have, I mean, some areas it’s a little bit different, right? Some areas they don’t have an attached garage and it’s fine to have one bathroom. So you’ve got to know your area and then you want a thousand square feet to 1200 square feet, minimum, much smaller than that. It’s harder to rent and then you got to make sure it’s ready to rent. It’s got all the landscaping and appliances, blinds, garage door opener, all that kind of stuff.

Ron: And I think guys, I think we’ve covered this in a previous episode, we want to make sure we put it all in here with your tenants because all of those things make it so that your tenant will stay. So if you want to minimize your turnover, then you have to have a house where they can’t just move to the next nicer house. So if you’re in a B and a C class area, right? And you’re not, you don’t have a brand new house and you don’t have a 10 year old house and people could go find a nicer house, then you want to make sure that your house is rehabbed nicer than the ones you know as nice or nicer than the ones around you. So there’s no where for them to go for the same rent range, right. If you, because I get, there’s a lot of people out there who when they go renovate their properties, they renovate them at the very minimum they could possibly renovate them, right.

Ron: Because they don’t want to put any more money into the property. And then they think that they’re not going to have tenant turnover, which is silly because if all of the other houses around there are the same as yours, except for, you know, 10 houses are nicer, way nicer than yours and they’re the same rent, well then the people are going to move into those ten first before they move into your house, you know. So these older properties, like the older properties that we get that are renovated, they’re renovated very, very nice. They’re renovated like they would be a retail sale.

Ron: Well, that makes it way easier for you to rent your and keep it rented because the people don’t have anywhere else they can go that’s nicer. Same principle as the new construction. The reason people don’t move out to new construction as often is because there’s no, where are they going to go? Like, I’m going to go get the house that was built last year. I mean, that doesn’t make any sense. It’s going to be basically the same thing. Add up all the moving costs and the pain in the butt of packing up all of their stuff. So they’re not going to do that without some other kind of a reason to do it. So all of those things are really, really important.

Angela: And yeah, we’ll talk about that in a minute, but generally, unless they’re moving for a job or have some other big reason to move, they’re upgrading or you gave them a reason to want to leave, you know, by not responding to issues and so on. So, first of all, you know, screening perspective tenants carefully take your time with that. One of the biggest reasons you end up with a bad tenant is you’re in a hurry. Because it is expensive to hold a property without someone paying your mortgage and no cashflow, right? But you don’t want to be in such a hurry that you just put anyone in there. So take your time screening.

Ron: Make, I mean this really, really critical that you do credit check and a criminal background check minimum. Those two things are just a minimum, right? And it’s really, really important. Now when you’re looking at credit though, if you’re doing this on your own and you’re looking at credit, I mean, people who rent, generally speaking, they got a little rougher credit than, you know, people who are buying houses, not always, right. And I’m not saying always, but a lot of times they do. There’s a reason why they rent. So you got to get the story from them and then you have to compare the story with what the statistics say in their report, right? The credit report and the background check. Those two things read like a novel if you know how to read them, right.

Ron: I mean, you can see in there whether or not they consistently have problems paying their bills or they consistently have problems with the law. It doesn’t really matter what the problems are. If they’re consistently having problems with the law can almost guarantee you at some point they’re going to be in jail for a long enough period of time that they aren’t going to be able to pay you rent. I mean, I can, I can almost guarantee it. So look at that stuff, right? And you know, I don’t, I don’t know about you guys, but anybody who doesn’t pay their child’s support, those are deadbeats. And we don’t rent to those people. I mean, I don’t rent to those people, right?

Ron: So you need to make your own rules about how you do this. But the story that those reports tell is either something that’s going to help them or it’s damning one of the two. And so you need to be the person in charge of reading the appropriate book on these guys, right? So when you’re screening, make sure you’re screening the right way. And don’t overlook calling the previous two or three landlords because the other two will probably give you the real story on those people. Like I said before, not just for section eight tenants for anybody, right.

Angela: Awesome. Thanks Ron. Okay. The next one is, you know, offer longer leases with some kind of incentive. Because you know, a lot of times you’re competing with similar homes all over the place and they’re trying to decide and something like, you know, a rent incentive can be the difference between getting a contract with them a longer contract and not losing them to a different property. So yeah.

Ron: This is something guys, it’s super simple, right? It’s just a math problem. So if you’re going to sit there vacant and sometimes the market changes, you know, sometimes there’s a whole glut of properties that go on the market during a certain time and that’s the time your tenant decided to move out. All of a sudden you’ve got to do something different. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the next time you rent, you can’t get a little higher rent than you’re going to be able to get this time. But it’s way better than to hold out for the higher rent than to get somebody in your property for a number of reasons, which I think we’ve covered on a, on a previous episode. But folks, a rented property is better than a vacant property. And so if you’ve got to take a little bit of a hit, take the little bit of a hit and get somebody in your property, right.

Ron: And that happened to me on a bunch of my apartment units that we built. If somebody built one down the street and, you know, they were often a better incentive than we did. So we had to offer an incentive for a year and then after the year we were able to increase our rent’s backup. No big deal. But it would have been a really big deal if we just sat there vacant, right? For months and months and months while these guys filled their apartment building, right. So just be smart about it.

Angela: Yup. Refusing to do stuff like that can cost you big time because you lose the tenants. So, okay. So this next one we have a really hard time saying, because one of the biggest rules if you have a property manager, for your properties is you do not ever talk to your tenants. You don’t want them to know who you are, you don’t want them to have your contact info, etc.

Ron: And none of that has changed by the way.

Angela: Yeah. We still think that. But if you are one of the people that has determined, you know that you’re going to manage your own properties, it is probably a smart idea to build a relationship with your tenants. And I don’t mean like hang out with them and you know, go out to the bar and get a drink. But you want to have a good professional relationship. They should know who you are. They should like you, they should know that you’re going to respond to their problems quickly. Having a personal, you know, just a little bit of a personal relationship with them will make a difference on them wanting to stay there, pay their rent on time, feeling comfortable contacting you. So it is a good, if you are managing your property right, Ron.

Ron: And you have no one else with you. So if you’ve built a team and you have multiple properties, then this is not the case.

Angela: Still a bad idea.

Ron: This is a bad idea. All right? So this is, I mean, I would never tell anybody. As a matter of fact, I’ve had people visit their properties with me and they gave out a card and I almost wanted to snatch it back out of the tenants hand. I don’t know what in the hell they were thinking. You do not give your information to tenants if there’s someone who can insulate you from them. If you are a one man band, you know, then this is kind of the only way to do it. But because somebody’s got to take the calls, somebody’s got to do all that stuff and he can hire stuff like that out. I mean, there are services that you can use if you’re going to do that and you’re going to insulate yourself using third parties. And that’s kind of like a management company. You’re just building your team yourself, then don’t do this, okay. So this is for one man band operations only, okay. And even then, it makes me sick to my stomach and kind of…

Angela: I know I told you we had a hard time saying that one, but there’s somebody out there that needs to do that. Okay. So moving right along, we’ve got to get Ron off that topic. Be proactive about tenant satisfaction. So a really important thing when you have, even when you have a property manager is that they, they do an inspection or a walkthrough a once a year to make sure that, you know, stuff’s working in your property and it looks okay. You kind of put a spin on this and tell the tenants you’re coming by to make sure everything’s working for them, but it’s also a way for you to go in and make sure they haven’t trashed the place, right. To make sure they’re treating it right.

Ron: Or they just haven’t told you about the leak ripping for six months, right. And it’s just, you know, destroying your property. I don’t know why tenants do that, but they do. They just do.

Angela: Some people are terrified of making a phone call or bugging you. There are people like that out there. I know there’s the big whiners as well, but there are people that just don’t want to bother you. And they’re like, oh, it’s not that bad.

Ron: Yeah. And the big whiners, you got to draw a line in the sand somewhere, right. You can’t just, you can’t fix everything they want fixed. But you can definitely respond and let them know what’s going on. Can’t just have tenants sitting there not understanding, you know, why they’re not being heard. Most people just want to be heard. Same thing with tenants, right. And then if there is a legitimate repair that needs to be done, then do it.

Angela: And quickly, quickly, especially if it’s something that’s affecting their, you know, quality of life. You know, you leave an air conditioning broke in the middle of summer, you got a miserable tenant that is definitely looking for somewhere else to live and trying to figure out how to get out of there.

Ron: It doesn’t have to be that man. It can be a lot of little things.

Angela: Like a dishwasher not working. It seems a little our garbage disposal, you know, like…

Ron: It can stack up man. And once you get your tenant pissed, I guarantee you they’re looking for somewhere else. And as soon as there’s a move in special somewhere else that makes it just attractive enough for them to pull the trigger, they will leave and they will go to the other place. I promise that that will happen. Now, maybe you don’t want the whiner in your place and that’s fine, but you need to be able to make that determination on your own and not just have them bail on you in the middle of the night and then wonder what happened. I can tell you exactly what happened. You left them in a place with a whole bunch of stuff that wasn’t working and you didn’t get on it in an inappropriate time. And if you did talk to them, you were probably a jerk. You can’t do that to people, right? So.

Angela: Yup. So treating your tenants well is what we’re getting at here. There are people they want to live in a nice house that feels like home and you know, if there is something that, that is a legitimate reason that you had to delay a repair, be transparent with them or hopefully, you know, you have somebody else to talk to them. But either way, let them know what’s happening. And be honest with them. Let them know why it’s delayed. And you know, that extra communication helps a lot.

Ron: Let me give you an example. I had a tenant a not too many months ago where it was time for them to sign a new lease and you know, they can either stay or they can move. And they said, well, we’ll stay if you replaced the carpet. And I said, well, when did we replace the carpet? Well, it was new when we moved in. Okay, well why would I replace it then, because you’ve damaged it over the last four years. So why would I put new carpet in for you to damage over the next four years? It doesn’t make any sense. So I just had a clear conversation with the property manager who had a clear conversation with the tenant. Look, you can’t expect to have the carpet changed when you’re the ones who tore it up. Nobody’s going to do that, right.

Ron: If I’m going to replace the carpet, then you need to extricate yourself from the building so it doesn’t get torn up again, right. So I’m okay with you, if you leave and I’m okay if you stay, but we’re not replacing the carpet. So you don’t have to do everything they ask, right. But if they would’ve called up because the cabinet is hanging off, right. And it was hanging off almost when they moved in, but now it’s all the way off. I’ll put the cabinet back up, right? Or whatever the silly little thing is right. But I’m not going to paint and carpet the place for them so they can stay there. That doesn’t make any sense, right. So you have to be able to judge what’s a good repair and what’s not a good repair, right.

Angela: Definitely. Okay. So another thing is, you know, I mean that’s being transparent with them, which is super important. But it also is good to be flexible with them on some, you know, maybe somebody that’s been with you a long time, you can reward their loyalty somehow. I know that sometimes with really good tenants that treat your property well and they stay there a long time, maybe you don’t increase the rent for that particular tenant for awhile, even though you’re increasing the rent on all your other properties. Because you appreciate them and they’ve been a great tenant and they’ve always paid on time and taking care of your property.

Ron: And I would go out of my way to let them know that if I were doing that right. Or I would increase the rent and I would give them a break so that they can see it on their contract that you’ve done that, right?

Angela: Yeah. Cross it out and say you’re paying this lower rate because…

Ron: So it’s important that you do things like, I think it’s important that you do things like that. Everybody’s, I mean these people, these are just people just like you and I and they, you know, they just want to be treated like we would want to be treated, right. So, you know, try not to inconvenience your people. Be flexible, reward them when they’ve done stuff that’s good. Anybody who’s taken care of your property for a year, I mean, that’s great. You want them to stay forever. You don’t want them to ever leave, right.

Angela: So do whatever you can to make that happen, you know. And then, you know, we can’t, we cannot end this podcast without saying, you know, if you’re frustrated with all these problems and with dealing with your tenants, maybe you should hire a property management company. Just a thought.

Ron: I would just tell you that everything that we just said, that’s what your property manager does. So, you know…

Angela: And they’re better at it than you are.

Ron: I mean maybe, maybe not.

Angela: 99.9% of the time, they’re better at it than you will. So.

Ron: But even if they’re not you got to figure out what your time is worth and determine whether or not it’s worth your time to do all of this stuff or just pay them whatever, six to 8%, maybe up to 10%, right? For me, way worth it, way worth it. But you guys do whatever you want to do and hopefully you can take some tips out of here to keep people longer, keep them paying their rent, start out the right way, right? I mean that’s, that’s the most important piece of this whole deal is to start out the right way and then just keep them happy. Keep them wanting to stay in your property.

Angela: And remember, yeah, the little things are not worth fighting over because the most important thing is to keep your property rented. That’s how you’re going to make a return. So, so that’s it. We both believe in property management, but if you don’t, make sure you listen to these tips.

Ron: There’s a 12 step program for you.

Angela: And there’s a 12 step program. Yeah. But thanks for listening guys. We really appreciate it. If you want to subscribe to our podcast, give us comments about this or anything else we’ve done or let us know, topics that you would like to hear about. Check out our website, GetRealEstateSuccess.com or look us up on Facebook at Get Real Podcast. And once again, thanks for listening. See you around.

Ron: Bye.

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